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General Category >> General Board >> A12's with early racing history.
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Message started by Dave Watt on 02/09/10 at 11:48:24

Title: A12's with early racing history.
Post by Dave Watt on 02/09/10 at 11:48:24

I've been curious to hear about A12's with early racing history. Whether it was Stock Eliminator or even bracket racing. I'm finding out some details of a C/SA Road Runner out of Ohio.
Of course the most well known would be Project Six Pack. NHRA records were achieved with Ted and his crew.

1. Project Six Pack C/SA  Rallye Green Road Runner 4-speed
2. Lou Mancini C/SA yellow Road Runner 4-speed
3. Lil' Thirsty Hemi Orange Super Bee
4. Hooterville Express red Road Runner automatic
5. An original owner F8 green Road Runner automatic here in Indiana that is still being raced.
6. Don Grotheer 4-speed Road Runner, I don't think it raced much.
7. el Bandito Bee from Colorado, yellow with blue graphics.
8. Bob Karakasian red Super Bee auto, bought new and raced a lot. I believe he did campaign in some Stock Eliminator events.  

Any others?

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by dstryr on 02/09/10 at 14:40:26

Refresh my memory with some details on Vic Edelbrock's car.  

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by Dave Watt on 02/09/10 at 15:05:01

According to the recent article in one of the Mopar magazines, it sounded as though Vics car was somewhat of a driver. There wasn't mention of dragstrip duty. Too bad it wasn't available to be at Carlisle back in July.

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by Coop on 02/09/10 at 15:09:55

Good idea Dave, let's keep track of the old warriors and give them some respect.

Not sure but you might want to include Bob K's car on that list with an asterisk. It wasn't officially campaigned yet raced for Hoover at various Mopar sponsored time trials.

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by a12bee on 02/09/10 at 15:54:29

There the el bandito bee that came colorado area.  I only know what was posted here though.

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by Dave Watt on 02/09/10 at 19:30:27

I've updated the list.
Coop, can't believe I didn't have Bob K on the list. That car probably has more track miles than street miles.
Mark, good thought on the el Bandito Bee.

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by RoadrunnerJD on 02/09/10 at 22:16:01

There was one in TN or thereabouts raced by John Laboose (I think that was his name)? He won a bracket race nationals or two. It was very fast. I don't know if it was a real A12? I think it was black? It was called Loose Caboose or something? Also, Tritak and Morgan in NJ had an A12 Bee race only that was written up in the magazines back in the day. I still have the article. It was a good reference for setting up a race car and engine build. I think it was rally green?

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by Ed Cook on 02/10/10 at 10:08:49


RoadrunnerJD wrote:
There was one in TN or thereabouts raced by John Laboose (I think that was his name)? He won a bracket race nationals or two. It was very fast. I don't know if it was a real A12? I think it was black? It was called Loose Caboose or something? Also, Tritak and Morgan in NJ had an A12 Bee race only that was written up in the magazines back in the day. I still have the article. It was a good reference for setting up a race car and engine build. I think it was rally green?


JD
I ran into the guys with the Triak and Morgan car. Still a nice piece not cut up! I think Scotty and I where parked along side of him at a local cruise last year.

By the look in his eye's I know he thought I was full of it when I told him how fast the cars went on bias ply tires ::)

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by Dave Watt on 02/10/10 at 11:14:15


Dave Watt wrote:
1. Project Six Pack C/SA  Rallye Green Road Runner 4-speed
2. Lou Mancini C/SA yellow Road Runner 4-speed
3. Lil' Thirsty Hemi Orange Super Bee
4. Hooterville Express red Road Runner automatic
5. An original owner F8 green Road Runner automatic here in Indiana that is still being raced.
6. Don Grotheer 4-speed Road Runner, I don't think it raced much.
7. el Bandito Bee from Colorado, yellow with blue graphics.
8. Bob Karakasian red Super Bee auto, bought new and raced a lot. I believe he did campaign in some Stock Eliminator events.
9. John Labbous, Loose Caboose Road Runner
10. Tritak and Morgan Super Bee  

Any others?

If anyone knows the original colors for some of them, let us know. What did the Tritak and Morgan Bee look like, was it lettered up a lot?

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by Fasbird on 02/10/10 at 11:38:11

What about Flypaper's (Frank) car? Wasn't that an original A12 car? I I remember, it still had the track paintjob on it when he had it up for sale.

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by mopargem on 02/10/10 at 15:09:02

how about b-body-bobs car, this is from his for sale ad, I think it was rally green.....

1969-1/2 A12 Plymouth road runner, serial number RM23M9A278XXX, with original VIN tag and matching trunk lip and radiator support stampings.    

This road runner has been used strictly a race car since 1976, when the owner previous to me bought it.  It was transformed into a bracket racing car by Arlen Vanke's shop not long after.  The car has been garage kept for the majority of its life, so rust never took a hold on it.  The fender tag, broadcast sheet, original engine, and transmission are also long gone.  Car currently has a fiberglass hood, doors, fenders, and bumpers installed.  It still has its original uncut  Dana 60, and Sure-Grip.

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by DRE on 02/10/10 at 23:40:35

There is a maroon one that raced at Norwalk alot a few years ago that is
an original A12 RR but I don't remember the name very well.
I will ask around and see if I can get a name.
I know it started with a Tom-----, and they were brothers, and it ran in the 9.60 range.

Also there is a guy named Fred Burnardy ?? that lives around Chicago that has and original A12 Bee
with a big superbee on the side and it is raced sometimes. (it's in the registry somewhere)
He also has the old Chapman superbee that raced in the KOS series when it first started.

Well Bad News about Fred's car. Here is the car I was talking about.
It is For sale on Moparts with his info in the add.
He goes by Beekeepr on there and he wants 52,500 for the car.
He doesn't have the Original motor and trans.
It has a 470 hemi in it now.

SORRY but the photo is HUGE and I don't know how to shrink it. Sorry dial up users.

Later David

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by A12_RuNNeR on 02/11/10 at 07:08:18

How about the 'Street Cleaner' (Pilot Super Bee)?

Never mind, I just re-read the article in Mopar Action:

"The car was a consistent high 12s runner at the track....The Dodge's racing duties came to an end in 1972 because of rising fuel prices and family responsibilities, and the car was retired to the driveway".

I thought it was raced for a long time -Cool pic though...

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by 69F6A12 on 02/12/10 at 00:04:43

I found this shot somewhere on the net a while back. I don't know if it was born an A12 or has early history, but it's a cool photo anyhow.

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by DRE on 02/12/10 at 01:25:12

Here is another race RR that races in the NHRA events.
It says 440 6bbl on the hood but ??? if it's a real one.
David

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by Dave Watt on 02/12/10 at 07:37:54

I know for sure that Chuck Stubeck's green NHRA Super Stock Road Runner started life as a 383 car, there was a nice magazine feature article a few years telling about the car.

I've tried to find out data on Art Pacheco's Super Bee but didn't get a reply, not sure if it's the real deal or not.

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by Coop on 02/12/10 at 08:58:52

Dave Kendall 1969ish  

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by Coop on 02/12/10 at 09:02:22

Donnie Cox... Contender

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by Dave Watt on 02/12/10 at 09:20:55

I know who has the "Contender". I scanned that photo out of the 1980 Muncie Dragway (Indiana) program.

The brother of a friend of mine took the Dave Kendall photo in the late '70's/early '80's.  If anyone knows the whereabouts of the car, let me know.

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by easygoingjuan on 10/21/10 at 20:23:20

I just saw the cool pics and I really enjoyed them.  Thanks a bunch for sharing.

Juan

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by Q5_Ed on 10/23/10 at 20:52:48

Dave, don't forget this one ;) Raced from the beginning this photo is circa 1975. It was campained by Greg Olson in Minnisota and surrounding area as a SS/E and had his name on the doors eventually. This was still Q5 with lace paint at the time. My favorite photo, I copied this from his 8x10 track photographer picture! Note the obvious tinted glass option 8-)

Ed

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by Q5_Ed on 10/23/10 at 21:06:05

A few more..

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by Q5_Ed on 10/23/10 at 21:08:48

another

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by Q5_Ed on 10/23/10 at 21:10:28

last....back in 69

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by Dave Watt on 10/23/10 at 21:36:34

Those are really cool photos Ed. I'd love to have a set of those vintage Keystone Classics. They just look right on an A12 Road Runner.

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by easygoingjuan on 10/24/10 at 20:38:35

Ah man, those were super great pics.  thanks a bunch for sharing!

Juan

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by flypaper on 10/24/10 at 21:09:09


Fasbird wrote:
What about Flypaper's (Frank) car? Wasn't that an original A12 car? I I remember, it still had the track paintjob on it when he had it up for sale.


i'm sure you have
confused me with bbody bob
none of my cars have ever been on the market... yet

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by projectmopar on 06/20/11 at 14:59:15


a12bee wrote:
There the el bandito bee that came colorado area.  I only know what was posted here though.


I purchased this car new from West Colfax Dodge in Lakewood CO, saw it on the transport and fell in love. This was No.#3 of the first 5 of these cars delivered in the Rocky Mountain region.

Someone asked about original colors, "Bandito" was “Yellow” body as seen in pictures, “White” Bee band stripe, “Black” vinyl top. Put 500 road miles on the new car then changed to 4.56 gears, Cyclone headers and Mallory ignition, never pulled apart other than a few Mickey Mouse tests performed by local tech guys. (Nothing like today with the test equipment, gauges, etc). At old CDR in Colorado Springs CO they put a piece of wire in one spark plug hole – felt no bumps on the piston and declared the car “legal” ??? The car had only 1,210 miles on it when sold, like one of you said it had more drag miles than street miles.

Thank you for remembering.
[img][/img]

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by projectmopar on 06/20/11 at 15:29:10

Here's a few more pictures of "Bandito" in the day, thanks again for remembering my car.


Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by projectmopar on 06/20/11 at 15:32:16

A few more pictures.

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by projectmopar on 06/20/11 at 15:33:52

One more, thank you for your time.

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by A12 on 06/20/11 at 17:40:02

WOW! Thanks for sharing that and WELCOME to the board [smiley=thumbsup.gif] [smiley=beer.gif] [smiley=beer.gif]

MikeR

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by A12 on 06/20/11 at 17:44:24

Where is the car now....................and where are you too?

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by projectmopar on 06/20/11 at 22:56:50


A12 wrote:
Where is the car now....................and where are you too?


The last time I saw anything about the car was someone on this website sent me an email asking for the VIN number. I furnished it and received this flyer the next day, called the dealer to double check the number, it was correct. I had high hopes of the car being in the low $20,000 range, sure got my bubble broke with this ad.   :-/

The only thing I could see different when purchased was originlally it had a "White" belly band not a "Black" one!

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by projectmopar on 06/20/11 at 23:37:48

I have talked to several owners of these cars in the Denver metro area. Seems several have similiar stories about the early years of racing them. For some reason the old stories get way off from what really happened in these early years.

For example people would come up to me at an event at Bandimere's (Denver dragstrip) where I was a NHRA Tech checking cars until 2007. They would ask if I was the owner of the "Bandito" car, I would tell them "yes, why do you ask"? They would go on about seeing us race at this dragstrip or another when they were young. I would reply "thank you for remembering". Then think about these different locations several states away, boy did they get things messed up. Heck we were lucky to run just in the surrounding states that bordered Colorado, I was divorced, making child support, paying for the race car and tow truck. Not counting gas, entries, food and sleeping on the ground at the dragstrips every weekend.  Fun now but at times hard way to spend your weekends when young, have had more baths in a sink at a rest stop than you would believe. !@#$%^.

Later

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by A12 on 06/21/11 at 12:12:57


projectmopar wrote:
I have talked to several owners of these cars in the Denver metro area. Seems several have similiar stories about the early years of racing them. For some reason the old stories get way off from what really happened in these early years.

For example people would come up to me at an event at Bandimere's (Denver dragstrip) where I was a NHRA Tech checking cars until 2007. They would ask if I was the owner of the "Bandito" car, I would tell them "yes, why do you ask"? They would go on about seeing us race at this dragstrip or another when they were young. I would reply "thank you for remembering". Then think about these different locations several states away, boy did they get things messed up. Heck we were lucky to run just in the surrounding states that bordered Colorado, I was divorced, making child support, paying for the race car and tow truck. Not counting gas, entries, food and sleeping on the ground at the dragstrips every weekend.  Fun now but at times hard way to spend your weekends when young, have had more baths in a sink at a rest stop than you would believe. !@#$%^.

Later



Great story...that last line hit home but not with drag races. I did back then in '69/'70 drag race my '69 road runner but I also started to race motocross in '70 and then went pro and then off-road (ISDT/ISDE) and took many a "sink-bath" at the rest areas and truck stops too ;D ;D but that's what a lot of us did when we were young and just wanted to race.

I know you have lots and lots of more good stories so where's that popcorn smiley thing when you need it? Sink-bath stories, making parts work with a pop-top or duct tape is all good stuff, thanks for sharing [smiley=beer.gif]

MikeR

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by sandbagger on 06/21/11 at 19:40:01

Didn't Landy have a car that he raced and eventually gave to his wife?

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by sixpakhemi on 06/21/11 at 21:25:47

I notice from the picture of the Bandito Bee that was took of rear of the car it looks like it has turn down exhaust tail pipes not the usual chrome tips. Is this what I think I'm seeing? I've seen one other car in this configuration

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by projectmopar on 07/09/11 at 00:06:46


sixpakhemi wrote:
I notice from the picture of the Bandito Bee that was took of rear of the car it looks like it has turn down exhaust tail pipes not the usual chrome tips. Is this what I think I'm seeing? I've seen one other car in this configuration


What you think you saw is correct, that was the way I received it from the dealer. This was the only one I really can remember seeing like this, they always had the chrome tips??? I thought I got screwed!!!  ;D

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by projectmopar on 07/09/11 at 00:29:58


sandbagger wrote:
Didn't Landy have a car that he raced and eventually gave to his wife?


"The Dandy One" was a personal friend because of the "Bandito" car and he was just flat "COOL", his performance classes and liking Colorado dealerships and the way he was treated as "The King", cigar and all. We took in every performance class he offered. If I had a problem I would call him and that problem or part became available or fixed, how's that for service from "The Man". I saw him run his 4 speed Six-Pack car once at "Century 21" in Aurora CO - then the '70 Challenger came on board. I heard at that time the car was for sale, later we heard that a dealership in CA  made a deal for his wife to drive the car one season, that's "hear say".  :-?  Never heard anymore about the car which made us happy as it would have been "Bad News" if someone got it and went after one of the records our 4 speed car held "One Shot".

We had a three car team of Dodges (1) Six-Pack  ("Bandito III" auto AHRA/NHRA Div Record Holder several times) (1) Six-Barrel ("One Shot" 4-speed AHRA ET dIV Record Holder) and (1) '69 Dodge RT 375 horse car would run under the index, but no records. This kept me busy keeping the three going, thank God for "White Owl" cigars and "Boone Farms" drinks, race track hamburgers sucked then like now.  ::)

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by RoadrunnerJD on 07/09/11 at 16:48:29

Great post! Thanks for sharing.

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by projectmopar on 07/10/11 at 01:02:58


RoadrunnerJD wrote:
Great post! Thanks for sharing.


Thank you for asking about my old car, makes one feel good to share old memories on one hand and sad that I was so dumb in selling it on the other.  :(    :'(    :-/

I'm having some problems with health issues and may end up sellin my '70 Dodge Challenger RT car now, this one will really hurt as its been a rotisserie restoration with upgrades through-out. See http://projectmopar.tripod.com/index.htm for the whole story.  !@#$%^

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by daniel_depetro on 07/12/11 at 23:04:53

Awesome thread!

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by Dave Watt on 03/23/12 at 09:16:54

Art Pacheco can't remember who he sold this Bee to. Does anyone know who owns it or if it's still out there racing?

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by Dave Watt on 07/08/12 at 11:55:29

Another Super Stock Super Bee. The photo was taken in Boise Idaho. Anyone recognize it?  It is a coupe, looks to be orange.

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by 68427vette on 01/02/13 at 12:23:59

were's the A4 RR, with all the graphics?  mine came out of the Minn MN area,, and has cutouts in the inner fenders, and other drag strip modifications.. and its a 4sp.. :o  still trying to track history of this one..  jc

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by Dave Watt on 01/03/13 at 21:09:55

This one?

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by Big E on 01/03/13 at 22:16:32

Can't tell if this one is a A12 car. But I can tell you it is not from Minnesota!

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by 68427vette on 01/04/13 at 08:47:45

yeap,, the A4 RR!!   :D

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by mattsmopars on 01/04/13 at 20:18:42

Saw this car at Clay City,KY. a few years back I beleive this was 2009. Anyway I remeber looking at the vin and thinking it was a real A12 car. I have saw it at a few other races as well. I don't know much about it other than that and its neat that its still being raced.

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by mattsmopars on 01/04/13 at 20:32:35


mopargem wrote:
how about b-body-bobs car, this is from his for sale ad, I think it was rally green.....

1969-1/2 A12 Plymouth road runner, serial number RM23M9A278XXX, with original VIN tag and matching trunk lip and radiator support stampings.    

This road runner has been used strictly a race car since 1976, when the owner previous to me bought it.  It was transformed into a bracket racing car by Arlen Vanke's shop not long after.  The car has been garage kept for the majority of its life, so rust never took a hold on it.  The fender tag, broadcast sheet, original engine, and transmission are also long gone.  Car currently has a fiberglass hood, doors, fenders, and bumpers installed.  It still has its original uncut  Dana 60, and Sure-Grip.



Here is a picture of Bobs car that I saved once for those that don't know it.
Matt

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by A12 on 01/04/13 at 20:41:13

Yep still racing and winning.....this was at Norwalk last September (2012) and it won the weekend's class and season championship [smiley=thumbsup.gif] [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by Big E on 01/04/13 at 23:57:28

.

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by Big E on 01/05/13 at 00:00:06

.

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by mattsmopars on 01/05/13 at 15:21:47

Here is a A12 RR I took this picture off of FBBO.
Matt

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by fury64 on 01/05/13 at 16:51:26


mattsmopars wrote:
Saw this car at Clay City,KY. a few years back I beleive this was 2009. Anyway I remeber looking at the vin and thinking it was a real A12 car. I have saw it at a few other races as well. I don't know much about it other than that and its neat that its still being raced.


This car is an original A12. My parents are the original/still owners. In the 70s and 80s it said Hooterville Express on the car.

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by V10 on 01/07/13 at 21:29:26

My car is #440 on the registry and I don't know the whole history of it but it was a racecar for some time around Effingham Illinois. The original motor was gone and it had a 426 Hemi in it. They said the motor was built in a shop in Indiana.
It had extended shackles on it and 14x32s on it.
I am still trying to find out more about it if anyone remembers seeing it or has any info I would like to here from you.

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by RoadrunnerJD on 01/08/13 at 08:46:03

If you could find an old National Hemi Owners Assoc membership list, you might be able to find a member from that area? I used to keep one with my old newsletters but don't know if I still have one? I bet someone on this forum has one in their library...Jim?

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by PJSIXPACK on 08/17/14 at 18:49:53

I raced mine from 1970 to 1974. I still have it and I hope to have it back on the track within two years or less. PJ

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by PJSIXPACK on 12/20/14 at 10:04:34


V10 wrote:
My car is #440 on the registry and I don't know the whole history of it but it was a racecar for some time around Effingham Illinois. The original motor was gone and it had a 426 Hemi in it. They said the motor was built in a shop in Indiana.
It had extended shackles on it and 14x32s on it.
I am still trying to find out more about it if anyone remembers seeing it or has any info I would like to here from you.

V10, I know a guy who raced a real Six Pack Bee with a Hemi and sold it to a guy from the Carlisle, In. area. I went to look at it, but didn't buy it because it had a Hemi. The guy acted insulted when I told him to pull the Hemi and I would put a "real" engine back in the car.

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by ProjectMopar on 12/20/14 at 12:42:02


Quote:
V10, I know a guy who raced a real Six Pack Bee with a Hemi and sold it to a guy from the Carlisle, In. area. I went to look at it, but didn't buy it because it had a Hemi. The guy acted insulted when I told him to pull the Hemi and I would put a "real" engine back in the car.


Many don't know how they devalue the vehicle with changes like motors, trans., rear-end, moving items from factory locations. I saw an original A12 a few years ago with battery in trunk, correct block but intake and carb change and a few correctable little changes. He wanted top dollar as seen on BJ sales. Really got mad when we pointed out all the wrong items and how the car was worth half of his asking price because of what he had changes.

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by b-body-bob on 12/20/14 at 13:26:55

^ yeah the guy I bought my car from wasn't pleased how the things he had done thinking they were good ideas turned to be bad.  They all say the same thing though, "it was just an old car at the time"

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by ProjectMopar on 12/20/14 at 13:46:02

I have looked at so much junk "correct A12 car" baloney on the Internet and used sale lots it makes me sick. The best one I have seen is for sale in St. George UT that is on the money - if your pockets are deep enough - $125K firm last year now at $120K wonder how low they will go.

http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/dodge/super_bee/1690433.html

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by V10 on 12/21/14 at 01:07:24


PJSIXPACK wrote:
[quote author=V10 link=1265734104/45#56 date=1357612166]My car is #440 on the registry and I don't know the whole history of it but it was a racecar for some time around Effingham Illinois. The original motor was gone and it had a 426 Hemi in it. They said the motor was built in a shop in Indiana.
It had extended shackles on it and 14x32s on it.
I am still trying to find out more about it if anyone remembers seeing it or has any info I would like to here from you.

V10, I know a guy who raced a real Six Pack Bee with a Hemi and sold it to a guy from the Carlisle, In. area. I went to look at it, but didn't buy it because it had a Hemi. The guy acted insulted when I told him to pull the Hemi and I would put a "real" engine back in the car.[/quote]

If you went and looked at it was it by any change F6 green or yellow and black like in the picture?

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by ProjectMopar on 12/21/14 at 09:57:26

Red with black top, and poor workmanship - sorry.

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by V10 on 12/21/14 at 10:55:19

I am one or two owners from the history of owners of my car.
I guess back in the day a hemi was a somewhat popular replacement if the original gave up.

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by RoadrunnerJD on 12/21/14 at 12:54:04

I used to have a Hemi in my black A12 from 1983-1989. It was a great showpiece but it never seemed at home to me until I got the 440-6 back in. If you don't have the original motor, a Hemi is not a bad substitute! A12's are my favorite but the Hemi is the Mopar icon.

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by Dave Carson on 12/21/14 at 14:04:22


RoadrunnerJD wrote:
I used to have a Hemi in my black A12 from 1983-1989. It was a great showpiece but it never seemed at home to me until I got the 440-6 back in. If you don't have the original motor, a Hemi is not a bad substitute! A12's are my favorite but the Hemi is the Mopar icon.


I wonder what that air cleaner would be worth today John?

Dave

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by RoadrunnerJD on 12/21/14 at 14:43:42


Dave Carson wrote:
[quote author=RoadrunnerJD link=1265734104/60#66 date=1419184444]I used to have a Hemi in my black A12 from 1983-1989. It was a great showpiece but it never seemed at home to me until I got the 440-6 back in. If you don't have the original motor, a Hemi is not a bad substitute! A12's are my favorite but the Hemi is the Mopar icon.


I wonder what that air cleaner would be worth today John?

Dave
[/quote]
I sold it for $750 about 20 years ago and was pretty satisfied with the price. It's a rare piece. Supposedly only 50 Hemi cars were sold with the T/A hood. Note the seam is on the side and it's taped over. My A12 seal had tape on the seam as well. There is some question about it but I believe it was a standard?

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by A12 on 12/21/14 at 17:27:38


ProjectMopar wrote:
I have looked at so much junk "correct A12 car" baloney on the Internet and used sale lots it makes me sick. The best one I have seen is for sale in St. George UT that is on the money - if your pockets are deep enough - $125K firm last year now at $120K wonder how low they will go.

http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/dodge/super_bee/1690433.html


I'll agree it is super nice but not exactly "on the money". Where's the grille blackout and I thought the bottom of the radiator support is blacked out also....then there the sway bar and the lower control arm and..........................but at least the SIX PACK on the hood scoop is in the correct factory document direction ;)

Again one of the nicer A12's but not completely "on the money".....but just my opinion and well worth the $120k and those small details would only take a couple of five buck rattle cans to fix :D ;D

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by Scott SixPack Robinson on 12/21/14 at 22:33:11

And I guess if you want over-restored floor pans .... .IMO the primer bottom is the only way to go ....

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by RoadrunnerJD on 12/22/14 at 13:05:09


A12 wrote:
[quote author=ProjectMopar link=1265734104/60#62 date=1419101162]I have looked at so much junk "correct A12 car" baloney on the Internet and used sale lots it makes me sick. The best one I have seen is for sale in St. George UT that is on the money - if your pockets are deep enough - $125K firm last year now at $120K wonder how low they will go.

http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/dodge/super_bee/1690433.html


I'll agree it is super nice but not exactly "on the money". Where's the grille blackout and I thought the bottom of the radiator support is blacked out also....then there the sway bar and the lower control arm and..........................but at least the SIX PACK on the hood scoop is in the correct factory document direction ;)

Again one of the nicer A12's but not completely "on the money".....but just my opinion and well worth the $120k and those small details would only take a couple of five buck rattle cans to fix :D ;D[/quote]

Are any A12's worth $120,000 today? Wouldn't the automatic and bench seat detract from the value?

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by A12 on 12/22/14 at 15:15:22


RoadrunnerJD wrote:
[quote author=A12 link=1265734104/60#69 date=1419200858][quote author=ProjectMopar link=1265734104/60#62 date=1419101162]I have looked at so much junk "correct A12 car" baloney on the Internet and used sale lots it makes me sick. The best one I have seen is for sale in St. George UT that is on the money - if your pockets are deep enough - $125K firm last year now at $120K wonder how low they will go.

http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/dodge/super_bee/1690433.html


I'll agree it is super nice but not exactly "on the money". Where's the grille blackout and I thought the bottom of the radiator support is blacked out also....then there the sway bar and the lower control arm and..........................but at least the SIX PACK on the hood scoop is in the correct factory document direction ;)

Again one of the nicer A12's but not completely "on the money".....but just my opinion and well worth the $120k and those small details would only take a couple of five buck rattle cans to fix :D ;D[/quote]

Are any A12's worth $120,000 today? Wouldn't the automatic and bench seat detract from the value?
[/quote]

Ouch......okay then how about buckets and an automatic  [smiley=laugh.gif] (but there is a lot of work and detail on that bee no doubt and if you had someone do that resto at today's prices and then try to make a few bucks for the effort? Too many cars being sold for less than what it would take to do a top notch resto these days IMO. The time it takes to hunt down the correct parts and the increased cost of resto and reproduction parts you're better off doing a good resto and driving it than to do a great resto and trailer it and sit there and look at the shinny paint on the bottom of it :D.......don't know where I'm going with this just babbling here on the keyboard [smiley=grin.gif]

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by RoadrunnerJD on 12/22/14 at 20:27:10

For some of us it's a labor of love and the cost (or time) is not the main concern. As in any restoration, it's easy to spend more than a person may be able to get back out of it. Just because someone spends a lot to have an expensive shop do the work doesn't mean it's worth what they have in it. It just means they have a lot of money invested in it. If you have the right combination and experience you might be lucky enough to break even...or better your investment. I am happy to enjoy mine by showing it and meeting all the people who enjoy seeing it even though I don't drive it. I have other cars to drive (love my 2013 Charger R/T). If I had another A12, I'd be tempted to just do a mild build motor, drivetrain and brakes and drive it to the drag strip to run it once in awhile.

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by DRE on 12/22/14 at 22:48:53

I Agree with you John but you can't take it with you so you might as well use it like you want too.
Running it at the track doesn't hurt it and the car will still clean up Nice again.
Janet has been racing her RR since 2004 and if you look at it today it is still as NICE as before we ever went down the track.
Except for she needs to clean the rubber off it yet. LOL You will get more stone chips and damage driving it on the roads.

I LOVE the show cars and the attention to detail that is in them BUT like you said it is hard to get all your money back
out of them. For that reason you should use the car and get that amount of money and enjoyment out of it that you won't get back when you or someone else sells it for you. That way you will break even when you decide to sell it.
My A12 will be driven unless it's a long haul then I will trailer it, Carlisle is an example. Columbus is close enough to drive it.

I Applaud people like Gumpy that drives their car all the way to Carlisle but I am to paranoid to take that chance of
something happening. I have a Good truck and a Good trailer so I won't take that chance of being stranded.

I know we have talked about this subject before and Actually the final decision is up to the cars owner on what he wants to do.
I Will Race mine, Street drive mine, Car Show mine, and God willing sell it to fund the final project for me.
A 1936 Plymouth Coupe with a Blown Hemi, Dad's retirement car project!!

GOD BLESS YOU ALL AND HAVE A MERRY CHRISTMAS !!!!!!!!!!
David

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by b-body-bob on 03/24/15 at 15:26:05

This may already be here but it just showed up today in my tumblr account


Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by gtsuperbee on 03/24/15 at 21:46:00

Sweet

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by Hive_Alive on 04/15/15 at 23:28:30

Don't know if this runner has been discussed on the site before, while I was showing my A12 bee at Autorama in TO this year I met up with a guy who owned and raced this car from 70 to 72 he bought it in Toronto as a dealer repo for 1200.00. He was later told that it was the only Black A12 runner that was sold in Canada.
Before I get to long winded may be some one else will chime in on this car if it is familiar.
I have the entire history on this runner and would be glad to share it.
It is what I call a local car as you can see in the photo of the car at Sauble Beach Ont.[img][/img]  

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by Dave Carson on 04/17/15 at 09:01:09

There was an original Ontario black car that Kevin use to own. It needed quite a bit of rust repair. He use to post years ago on the original message board. Car was sold to Florida in would say over 10 years ago now.
I can't remember if it was a coupe or a hardtop, but it was a 4-speed car. I will try and narrow it down some more.

I can't wait to hear the story on it.

Dave

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by Dave Watt on 04/19/15 at 12:56:11

Cool photos guys.

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by Hive_Alive on 04/19/15 at 19:54:48

In regards to the black runner I will repeat what was provided to me by Ron Rombough the 2nd owner of the car.
The car was bought new from Paul Willison in Toronto by an 18 yr old with his mothers down payment. He could not keep up the payments and the Runner was repo'd by the dealer. It went to the owner of a Sunoco station on Victoria Park in Toronto.I was informed by the parts manager at Willisons that car was for sale in the fall of 1970. I paid $1200.00 for the car and drove it thru the winter of 70 & 71. I raced the car in D/PS at Georgetown and Cayuga, turning best time of 13.40 @ 105 MPH. I was no Ronnie Sox on the 4 speed. The car won Pure Stock Eliminator one Sat. nite @ Georgetown. I had borrowed the money from my mother to buy the car and she needed the money back to buy a new 72 Dodge Demon. I had to make a choice between keeping the 6 pack car or my 69 Superbee I also owned at the time. I couldn't afford to keep both and my father had cosigned the loan so that I could get the Bee that I still own to this day.
If I had waited a month I could have orderd an A12 .the car was well known and couldn't get a street race. I was later told that my car was the only black A12 RR to be sold in Canada. Do not know if that is true or not. I sold it in the spring of 72 to a guy in Uxbridge who overrevved and scattered the engine. It sat for approx. 20 yrs until someone named Kevin bought it and attempted a restoration that did no work out and sold it to some one in Florida, that's the last I heard of it.
I am presently in the process of my Original 69 Bee restoration, the odometer only shows 40000 miles to this day,most of those came from travelling from Scarboro to Cayuga and back on a regular basis.
The car should be completed for next year--it has not been driven since 93 when I brought it back to Geulph.
I would really like to find out who presently owns the RR so that I may share some history with them.
May be going to FL after Moparfest and would love to see the car again.

I said to Ron that I would see what turns up once this is posted on the site and I would help as much as I could so maybe this will jog some memories and someone may know of the car.
Also Ron would like to be a member of this A12 community and I will suggest he do so.

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by Dave Carson on 04/19/15 at 20:57:58

Sounds to be the same car. Kevin had it for sale for awhile at $10k with no takers until the guy from Florida snapped it up.

He has a black '71 GTX now.

Is there any more pics of the black Runner?

Thanks for taking the time to share the story!

Dave

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by sparkey on 04/20/15 at 07:23:22

I am a Florida native and sure wished I knew of this black A12. I know of 9 A12 cars in Florida now, and be willing to bet there is more. I will keep my eye out for this black A12

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by Hive_Alive on 04/20/15 at 09:37:42

I believe this is the only picture that he still had in his possession Dave but I will speak with Ron on the possibility of others.
Pretty cool if it showed up as the 10th A12 car that you know of in Florida.
Good possibility that it is RM21M9A277065 listed on the registry as a RR sold in Toronto.

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by A12 on 10/09/15 at 19:42:58

I just did a quick scroll through this thread and didn't see this one. Mike O'Malley's Road Runner

Anyone know anything on this one that "appears" to be an A12 as it was in the 1970 Indy U.S. Nationals and listed as the SS/FA class winner and listed here as "Powered by Carbureted Gas 440 Plymouth by Ramchargers with automatic transmission"  

http://www.draglist.com/draglist/search.php?SORTBY=&ASCDESC=ASC&search=Search&VIEW=Extended&LASTUPDATER=Mike+O%27Malley


The only photo I could find so far  :'(

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by A12 on 10/09/15 at 19:44:51

Found it reading a MSN story on the '66 Hemi Charger when I saw the results list from the '70 Indy Nationals, at the bottom of the list

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by Muscle Mopars on 01/27/17 at 10:25:30

This one I just picked up has spent some time on the track.  The glove box had several low 10 second time slips in it!  The car is a one owner 21K mile car.  The story is it the engine and rear end were stolen out of it in '71 or '72 and then the car just sat until the late '80's early '90's when he decided to go drag racing.  The car is 100% rust free but does have a few modifications.  Nothing that couldn't be changed back though!  It is T5 T5 MT2 T7 and an early build.  Don't see ones like this every day!

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by Dave Watt on 01/27/17 at 14:42:53

Beautiful Road Runner Muscle Mopars. We saw it on Ebay  but couldn't read the fender tag well enough to see all the codes. Pretty early build.

Title: Re: A12's with early racing history.
Post by 6bblbird on 06/22/17 at 22:07:12

Here are a few pics of mine from it's glory days!

It's debut in Stock Eliminator. Englishtown 1977
http://media.fotki.com/1_p,bskkkdsbsbbkfxbswggfrrstw,vi/gtskqqwswxrqqbkwgd/1/162316/582864/Beeper1977-vi.jpg
1990 Division One points race win (top) and 1995 Summernationals
http://media.fotki.com/1_p,bskbqtbbkgkwwxbswggfrrstw,vi/bsdffqgqsxrqqbkwgd/1/162316/582864/Beeper19901995-vi.jpg
At US 13 Maryland with a Hemi:
http://media.fotki.com/1_p,bsbwdbkfgkwrdxbswggfrrstw,vi/grksdgqqbxsbdrqskf/1/162316/582864/US131995-vi.jpg
Hard launch at Maple Grove:
http://media.fotki.com/1_p,dqgrbktqsfrwsgxbswggfrrstw,vi/sbwrsgdgrxksskgsfwr/1/162316/582864/HardLaunchatMapleGro2AD62F-vi.jpg
WF

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