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A12 Forum >> A12 - Restoration Forum >> Engine Painting
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Message started by Coop on 10/17/09 at 13:02:31

Title: Engine Painting
Post by Coop on 10/17/09 at 13:02:31

Painted the engine this week. It's been a long time coming...economy, laziness, etc etc...ran out of excuses and finally got it done.

1. Sealer on left JP202 https://buyat.ppg.com/refinishProductCatalog/ViewProduct.aspx?ProductID=3a83823d-5ffd-4728-ad92-c2d667f354f8(for pitting or minor defects) flash time 15 minutes, sandable in 1-2 hours. This stuff is like liquid bondo, very useful for tiny touch ups on smooth steel 'tin' like surfaces such as valve covers etc.

PPG JH301 Hardener and JR505 Reducer are used with the sealer to manipulate dry times and weather conditions

2. Epoxy primer in center JP375 https://buyat.ppg.com/refinishProductCatalog/ViewProduct.aspx?ProductID=26f0b8be-236e-4214-827b-58ef2dd2503b(for primer coat) Allow 15 minute induction (after initial mixing) before spraying. Flash time/recoat time 15 minutes. Must recoat (with second primer coat) before 72 hours or mechanically rescuff all surfaces.

PPG JH3770 hardener is second part of catalyzed mixture

3. Finish paint on right UTECH 3.8 HSP (Dupont code 5067U) http://www.akzonobelcarrefinishes.net/default.asp?sid=65395&pid=452(high solids polyurethane finish) Allow 15 minutes to flash, 15 hours to dry, max recoat time 7 days

UTECH 3.8 Activator is part of mixed solution.

Note: You can add a flattener to knock down the sheen. I didn't since this is an 'overestored' effort and also wanted to keep the hardness/durability. It'll reduce in shine as time goes on.  



Cost for all paint approx $200. Cost of guns (3) and dessicant system etc $1000. You don't need to spend this much on equipment -I just wanted to get some good devilbiss HVLP equipment. You can get the equipment you need to paint (assuming you have a CFM compatible compressor) for well under $500 bucks. So if you have a car to restore, and you're going to get at least a half dozen parts painted at some point in the process (air cleaner, door trim, wheels, etc etc) full investment for the guns and paint is much less than you'd pay to have a pro do the work. And in the end you'll have the freedom to paint what you want on your own terms.  

I took some vids:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=is7OvlW1D_w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaVtzWEn0yw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-_v4wY-j6g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3gw8RZWRpk
Sorry for the narration quality...getting over a cold and not at all an 'expert' at this.
AGAIN...This is not gospel advice and not intended to be 'expert information'
USE ALL APPROPRIATE SAFETY EQUIPMENT AS THIS PAINT WILL KILL YOU IF YOU ARE NOT CAREFUL.  



Thanks to Mike Bonsanti, Dave Verna and Mike Waldbrunn for all their advice and help.  :)

Title: Re: Engine Painting
Post by Coop on 10/17/09 at 13:03:12

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Title: Re: Engine Painting
Post by Coop on 10/17/09 at 13:03:50

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Title: Re: Engine Painting
Post by Coop on 10/17/09 at 13:04:24

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Title: Re: Engine Painting
Post by Coop on 10/17/09 at 13:04:50

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Title: Re: Engine Painting
Post by Coop on 10/17/09 at 13:05:19

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Title: Re: Engine Painting
Post by Coop on 10/17/09 at 13:05:49

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Title: Re: Engine Painting
Post by Coop on 10/17/09 at 13:06:19

8.

Title: Re: Engine Painting
Post by WM21M9A on 10/17/09 at 16:40:09

WOW, nice job. I have had trouble with valve cover paint peeling. I will definitely keep your painting method in mind.

Title: Re: Engine Painting
Post by FATA12 on 10/17/09 at 16:56:29

Man that looks beautiful.. Hope you don't have adjustable
rockers.. 8-)

Title: Re: Engine Painting
Post by Q5_Ed on 10/18/09 at 09:27:18

Coop,

Looks great and excellent Archieve resto material! We need more of the individual item resto documented for us in the middle of it.

Ed

Title: Re: Engine Painting
Post by F6Bee on 10/18/09 at 14:11:37

As usual, it is nice to see you going the extra mile, looks great.

Rick.

Title: Re: Engine Painting
Post by Dave Watt on 10/20/09 at 14:39:50

Nice job Coop. Can't wait to see it with some components bolted on.
I've painted engines with spray cans for many years, but the results of a spray gun are really worth the extra effort.

Title: Re: Engine Painting
Post by dstryr on 10/20/09 at 15:10:36


Dave Watt wrote:
Nice job Coop. Can't wait to see it with some components bolted on.



Yeah, like headers. 8-) ;D

Title: Re: Engine Painting
Post by Coop on 10/20/09 at 23:32:32

Thanks guys. Never had a 4 hour erection (as warned about on TV), but this part of the process has got to be pretty close.

Bolting on some parts (carbs, distributor, etc) restored by Bill Overcash years ago.

Reused original motor mounts with 3 dimple nuts and washers but NOT the old crusty bolts. reused one 'EB' fuel seperator hose, got another 'EB' hose from Grinwald/Almost NOS, correct Delco solenoid, replated 054 choke thermosat, Almost NOS coil, original exhaust manifolds which are unfinished/uncoated/unpainted, also left the paint off the front loom rubber as per survivor, used an 11 mm open ended wrench to tap mill finish oil tube stop down into block (very snug), black handle dipstick, center carb sticker on left...yada yada

496 stroker, hemi oil pan, 10.5 compression, fully ported 452s /1.88 valves with nice mid/high flow, Comp 250+ cam...nothing to scream about but should be good on the street and look decent.    


 

Title: Re: Engine Painting
Post by Coop on 10/20/09 at 23:33:12

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Title: Re: Engine Painting
Post by Coop on 10/20/09 at 23:33:44

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Title: Re: Engine Painting
Post by Coop on 10/20/09 at 23:34:48

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Title: Re: Engine Painting
Post by MBonsanti on 10/21/09 at 07:34:13

Looks beautiful!!  Keep up the good work..

MB

Title: Re: Engine Painting
Post by Dave Watt on 10/21/09 at 09:12:14

The overhead shot looking down the barrels is the best. Looks great Coop.

Title: Re: Engine Painting
Post by moparholic4bbl on 10/23/09 at 00:23:46

A work of art.

Title: Re: Engine Painting
Post by Coop on 12/23/09 at 13:11:48

Engine is in.
Doing this the hard way....engine, then bell housing/clutch, then trans, driveshaft etc (not able to set up the K frame jig procedure). Any words of wisdom regarding this approach would be appreciated.

Title: Re: Engine Painting
Post by Dave Watt on 12/23/09 at 13:24:00

Once again, looks great Coop.
That is the same procedure I used every time on my Road Runner. Leave the clutch to flywheel bolts loose until the trans is slid in. Even with an alignment tool it can still take some effort to wiggle the input shaft in. Also, it is much easier doing all of this without the H pipe in the way, after it's installed, the transmission installation is a pain.

Title: Re: Engine Painting
Post by super bee liever on 12/23/09 at 13:45:03

Beautiful. You have given Michealangelo a run for his money!

Title: Re: Engine Painting
Post by a12bee on 12/23/09 at 16:49:49

Sure is shiny!  You going to be able to drive that after you're done screwing it together?

Title: Re: Engine Painting
Post by F6Bee on 12/23/09 at 17:38:02

Looks great Coop.

Rick.

Title: Re: Engine Painting
Post by RoadrunnerJD on 12/23/09 at 20:46:04

Nice! It' really no problem to install it with the bellhousing on it? You've probably put in plenty of clutches. You'll have it buttoned up in no time. Are you working with a lift or on the garage floor (like I do)? If you need any suggestions for ease of installation at this point, I'm sure you can get plenty! Looks great!

Title: Re: Engine Painting
Post by A12_RuNNeR on 12/23/09 at 21:23:19

Great pics Coop...I'm following along and adding these ones to my archive.

One question about the fuel pump though- that one looks quite a bit different than the one I ordered,
mine is real close to the one on Frank B's motor.


Scott


Title: Re: Engine Painting
Post by 69 sixbbl on 12/23/09 at 22:36:48

you can do the same thing and get the same results with a $15.00 glass jar aerosol paint sprayer 2 pints of paint ,some hardener and thinner for $100.00 .primer,epoxy is not necessary  on engine.

Title: Re: Engine Painting
Post by gtx6970 on 12/24/09 at 10:41:40

Coop, Glad to see it finally coming together.it's been a long time coming

For the un-informend,,,,,, IF i may. And this is just MY opinion .
fuel pump is Hemi pump. the L bracket in the spark plug wire routing kit on the front of the left cylinder head  is not used on 69 B-bodies, plug in the rear of the intake manifold should be an outey and not an inney


Title: Re: Engine Painting
Post by Coop on 12/24/09 at 11:32:39

Thanks guys.

JD, I'm 'on the floor' as my Bend Pak lift is next door to this room and more or less occupied with my kids many projects. No big deal as I'd prefer to keep my work in this 'clean room' if at all possible (man am I getting spoiled). I was looking into these 'Max Jax' lifts and considering a set (portability and low ceiling friendly) but money is tight so we'll be humping it together with minimal clearance.....And I'm not complaining! As a kid we did clutches, trans, engines, etc in gravel driveways, dirt floors in barns, etc.

Max Jax: http://www.maxjaxusa.com/video.html

Scott, I'm using a hemi pump which will hopefully satisfy 500 cubes via 3/8 plumbing (yes tank to carbs). Can't recall the particulars but the pump/fuel line combo was suggested as a popular choice in an old discussion we had on strokers. I'll try to find the receipt, or the discussion, and post later. Thanks.

Bill, Thanks, I'll look into your observations and make the corrections. I appreciate the heads up. The plug in the manifold is how I got it years ago. Pretty sure I have an outey for that hole around here somewhere.

Title: Re: Engine Painting
Post by Coop on 12/24/09 at 11:33:25

..

Title: Re: Engine Painting
Post by Coop on 12/28/09 at 17:13:31

...

Title: Re: Engine Painting
Post by Coop on 01/06/10 at 09:33:31

Slowly getting it together

Title: Re: Engine Painting
Post by Dave Watt on 01/06/10 at 13:50:57

Looking great Coop. Are you getting pretty close to firing it up once the clutch/trans is in?  

Title: Re: Engine Painting
Post by Coop on 01/06/10 at 18:46:15

Thanks Dave,

Yep, lots of odds and ends to check and double check but should have this car running soon. No doubt there will be a 'punchlist' of things to correct, but I'm ready for anything.

Exhaust system is the last big dollar item. I'm calling Gardner, Accurate and Waldron this week to see what stainless they use, how it's bent, and what it's worth. Do you guys have any other vendors to reccommend?

As 'over restored' I'm trying build in as much longevity and durability as I can...the time I've spent so far dragging this out, well... that alone justifies the idea! Had I gone the OE route this car would've started rusting and discoloring before it was finished.  ;D

Title: Re: Engine Painting
Post by Dave Watt on 01/06/10 at 22:12:22

I was happy with the Accurate complete exhaust, the bends are smoother than factory, aluminized steel, it never started to rust. About $800 for everything but was a complete bolt on system including stainless tips. Just make sure you tighten the heck out of the muffler clamps or the tailpipes will slide out of the mufflers. Installation was a one man job.
I had called Gardner, around $1,500,  concourse quality including all of the restrictive factory bends. I don't think they do stainless.
TTI is good but takes a lot of time to fit properly, even with 3 guys messing with it.
Waldron isn't one I've heard of.  

Title: Re: Engine Painting
Post by a12bee on 01/07/10 at 05:44:23

Amazing coop.   :o

Title: Re: Engine Painting
Post by A12_RuNNeR on 01/07/10 at 09:09:35

Bee-yoo-tee-full.

Not sure if you said Coop, but what paint code or Formula did you use for the engine paint?

Title: Re: Engine Painting
Post by super bee liever on 01/07/10 at 09:20:54


Dave Watt wrote:
I was happy with the Accurate complete exhaust, the bends are smoother than factory, aluminized steel, it never started to rust. About $800 for everything but was a complete bolt on system including stainless tips. Just make sure you tighten the heck out of the muffler clamps or the tailpipes will slide out of the mufflers. Installation was a one man job.
I had called Gardner, around $1,500,  concourse quality including all of the restrictive factory bends. I don't think they do stainless.
TTI is good but takes a lot of time to fit properly, even with 3 guys messing with it.
Waldron isn't one I've heard of.  

Did that include mufflers? If not, what or where are you getting?

Title: Re: Engine Painting
Post by Coop on 01/07/10 at 11:50:27


A12_RuNNeR wrote:
Bee-yoo-tee-full.

Not sure if you said Coop, but what paint code or Formula did you use for the engine paint?


Thanks Scott, used dupont 5067U which is the correct 'hemi orange', which is the 'less red' orange. Used it so the clash between R4 body color and engine color would be minimized. I was thinking that mandarin or some of the other choices would be redder (closer to R4) and increase the clash...so I tried to get a flat orange. Just so happened that the correct color is pretty much flat so I went with it. The colors are still close enough to clash, but it's not as bad as it could be. If the car was F6 or something besides R4 or V2 might've chosen one of the deeper/redder oranges. .02

In fact was up late last night repainting the compartment to give it more of a 60's look

Title: Re: Engine Painting
Post by Dave Watt on 01/07/10 at 17:29:38


super bee liever wrote:
Did that include mufflers? If not, what or where are you getting?

Yes, the complete Accurate system included the Hemi mufflers. I ordered it directly from them.

Title: Re: Engine Painting
Post by DRE on 01/11/10 at 22:51:49

That photo looks COOL the way it turned out.
That looks kinda retro looking.
Car is looking Good.
Keep the photos coming.
David

Title: Re: Engine Painting
Post by Coop on 01/12/10 at 08:39:21

Thanks Dave,

Weather has allowed some time to screw around lately, so I went even further with the image adding some text below... and yep the idea was to give it a 60's retro look (see attached) This GIF version loses much of the neon color effect, the JPEG version is much brighter but won't post here due to large size.

As I've said I have no delusions, the car is just another R4 mutt with body and part transfusions. That said, it's going to be a strong #2 built for local shows and driving. Some day I might have a special color combo car, or an OE type resto, or even a survivior which I'd see as a much 'nicer' car...but then I'd be more hesitant to drive it. I know Ed, Pete and some of the other guys here have proved that thinking wrong as they regularly race some incredibly nice original motor cars, but not sure I'd have the stones to do that. So I'm thankful for what I have. Especially thankful to be able to finish it off in this pi ss poor government engineered economy.

Clutch, trans and shaft should be in this week once some parts arrive.

Title: Re: Engine Painting
Post by Coop on 01/12/10 at 08:44:04

Original photo used:

Title: Re: Engine Painting
Post by Coop on 01/12/10 at 12:03:03

Extra large JPEG image with much better/brighter colors (click on ZIP FILE attachment link below).



Once parts come in I'll get back to posting car images.  ;D  

Title: Re: Engine Painting
Post by a12bee on 01/12/10 at 16:06:19

Excellent. :)

Title: Re: Engine Painting
Post by maxwellwedge on 01/12/10 at 19:59:29

Hey Coop - Andy Warhol did one for me as well!  ;)

Title: Re: Engine Painting
Post by Coop on 01/12/10 at 20:48:42

;D

Hi Jim.

Glad I'm not the only frustrated 'artist' here.
We should probably start a thread for these efforts as I'm guessing more will follow.
Mercifully mine will be limited to deep winter when outdoor work is slow.

Anyway, welcome aboard. You have some really nice rides!




Title: Re: Engine Painting
Post by maxwellwedge on 01/12/10 at 21:24:27


Coop wrote:
;D

Hi Jim.

Glad I'm not the only frustrated 'artist' here.
We should probably start a thread for these efforts as I'm guessing more will follow.
Mercifully mine will be limited to deep winter when outdoor work is slow.

Anyway, welcome aboard. You have some really nice rides!


Thanks Coop - Your engine compartment looks great!
Cheers,
Jim

Title: Re: Engine Painting
Post by 6007.mark on 01/19/10 at 17:34:40

looks really, really nice. Is that 440 engine paint.

Title: Re: Engine Painting
Post by HotRod20 on 01/19/10 at 18:05:55

Wow ! what an inspiration for the rest of us. Too cold in MI to even go out to the mancave.
Ok I'm ready for Spring!! HR20

Title: Re: Engine Painting
Post by Coop on 01/20/10 at 07:23:50

Engine color is a urethane Dupont hemi orange. There're details in one of the posts on this thread.

Inspiration is circular. To me it came from Dane, Pete, Bill O and others. If anyone gets inspiration here it likely started years ago in other rides and encouragement.

Thanks guys for the kind words. More pics in slideshow link below.

Title: Re: Engine Painting
Post by Q5_Ed on 01/21/10 at 19:47:34

Coop,

COOL stuff man! I will be refering to these closely over the next 12-18 months.

Ed :o

Title: Re: Engine Painting
Post by A12_RuNNeR on 01/21/10 at 20:45:22


Q5_Ed wrote:
Coop,

COOL stuff man! I will be refering to these closely over the next 12-18 months.

Ed :o



I've got that page bookmarked, I'm sure I'll be using it too over the next few months.

Title: Re: Engine Painting
Post by kidsixpack on 01/21/10 at 23:51:36

I'm not sure why but this is the first time I've opened this thread.  Coop: The engine looks fantastic!
Great photos to boot!
KID

Title: Re: Engine Painting
Post by Day2Runner on 02/10/10 at 15:59:59

[smiley=thumbsup.gif] great job

Title: Re: Engine Painting
Post by ricks_RR on 02/16/10 at 12:33:57

its a lot of work coop and it looks great

ricks_RR

Title: Re: Engine Painting
Post by badsixpack on 02/16/10 at 15:25:12

coop that thing looks beautiful. looks like you have everything but if you need anything just let me know i may have it...

Title: Re: Engine Painting
Post by Ed Cook on 02/16/10 at 20:16:00

Pete

Stop teasing we all know you don't give up the good stuff ::)

Title: Re: Engine Painting
Post by Ed Cook on 02/16/10 at 20:17:09

Looks great Coop

Title: Re: Engine Painting
Post by Coop on 02/17/10 at 10:33:54

Ed, Scott, ...thanks. But as far as referring to info found here at the forum to help with resto work... we will be posting Danes resto picture collection of the recent B Body Nats winner. It should be up this week under the 'Projects' section. Anyone doing an OE type resto will have every little detail in vivid large image detail to follow. It'll linked to a slideshow format similar to mine. Trust me, there are no secrets held back from what I've seen so far. We will all learn quite a lot about factory resto detailing and getting the little stuff correct from Dane and his Nats winner.

Kid, Day2, Rick...Thanks guys. As has been said here many times, we help and inspire each other. Kid's web site was an inspiration way, way, way back when. Good luck with your projects guys.  

Pete, thanks. I was talking to Mike about needing a tail panel but since then have it worked out. Waiting for Mark at Classic Metal Finishing who states the item will be annodized the end of this month, then finished and shipped. So I'm good for now. But thanks for the offer as I know you are the man as far as having parts from all the Bees you've had over the years. BTW still need a May wheel. ;)

Ed, thanks. Much appreciated...and now, if it's not asking too much, I'd like some of that amazing luck you've been hoarding! I'm talking about the 'high compression' car that dropped into your lap. WOW! Good thing it happened to a great guy, would've been hard to take if not. Of course we're all looking forward to your future FAST adventures with both kids. Fantastic family togetherness story.    


Title: Re: Engine Painting
Post by A12_RuNNeR on 02/17/10 at 11:13:17


Coop wrote:
... we will be posting Danes resto picture collection of the recent B Body Nats winner. It should be up this week under the 'Projects' section. Anyone doing an OE type resto will have every little detail in vivid large image detail to follow. It'll linked to a slideshow format similar to mine. Trust me, there are no secrets held back from what I've seen so far. We will all learn quite a lot about factory resto detailing and getting the little stuff correct from Dane and his Nats winner.


That will be great to see all those photos, I'm coming into a stage on mine where they will be a big help, after doing nothing but E bodies for years, I need all the help I can get with these B's, lol

Title: Re: Engine Painting
Post by badsixpack on 02/17/10 at 14:23:32


Coop wrote:
Ed, Scott, ...thanks. But as far as referring to info found here at the forum to help with resto work... we will be posting Danes resto picture collection of the recent B Body Nats winner. It should be up this week under the 'Projects' section. Anyone doing an OE type resto will have every little detail in vivid large image detail to follow. It'll linked to a slideshow format similar to mine. Trust me, there are no secrets held back from what I've seen so far. We will all learn quite a lot about factory resto detailing and getting the little stuff correct from Dane and his Nats winner.

Kid, Day2, Rick...Thanks guys. As has been said here many times, we help and inspire each other. Kid's web site was an inspiration way, way, way back when. Good luck with your projects guys.  

Pete, thanks. I was talking to Mike about needing a tail panel but since then have it worked out. Waiting for Mark at Classic Metal Finishing who states the item will be annodized the end of this month, then finished and shipped. So I'm good for now. But thanks for the offer as I know you are the man as far as having parts from all the Bees you've had over the years. BTW still need a May wheel. ;)

Ed, thanks. Much appreciated...and now, if it's not asking too much, I'd like some of that amazing luck you've been hoarding! I'm talking about the 'high compression' car that dropped into your lap. WOW! Good thing it happened to a great guy, would've been hard to take if not. Of course we're all looking forward to your future FAST adventures with both kids. Fantastic family togetherness story.    

If That tail panel don't work out I have one..Pete

Title: Re: Engine Painting
Post by Coop on 10/23/10 at 10:00:01

Update as I'm getting emails once in awhile from new guys interested in engine painting who found the Playground but haven't found this thread. Again, I don't pretend to be an expert, (far from it!), check with others before assuming this info is worth following...

***

Thanks for the generous tail panel offer Pete! I did find finally find a trim finisher who delivers quality at competitive cost:
Mark Shank  
Classic Metal Finishing LLC
5847 S 775 E
Pierceton, IN 46562-9775  
Phone: (574) 527-0532
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=az8lprLnKHM


***

Heads failed on start up which was at first my worst nightmare. I was worried that a rebuild would ruin the new paint. Not the case at all! Engine was carefully disasembled and rebuilt with new 906 ported, 11.5 to 1, lumpy hydralic cam. It really wasn't that hard to execute while maintaining the overall quality of the new urethane paint. I don't think I would've had the same luck had the paint been of the less hard store bought (spray can) variety.

New heads and cam are in. Car is finally running.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-DbU6Kr7Js
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2A8hnECF140


***

Also, here's the link to Dane's award winning resto which helps those involved in OEM projects:
http://a12mopar.com/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1267059449

Finally, there are lots of other ongoing restos in the "Projects" forum to find very helpful info. If you've run into special concerns it's likely someone else has experienced the same issues here:
http://a12mopar.com/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=projects

Good luck!

Title: Re: Engine Painting
Post by BigDaddy440 on 10/25/10 at 04:25:38

Very nice indeed. I've never even thought about painting the engine after its completely assembled. Interesting.....great job!

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